Two Trump Lawyers and a NYT Reporter Walk Into a Bar …. 1

Okay, it was a DC steakhouse, not a bar, and this is no joke.

Two of President Trump’s personal lawyers—Ty Cobb and John Dowd—ate lunch at BLT Steak on a recent Tuesday and discussed differing legal strategies for responding to Director Mueller’s Russian-related document requests.  They dined and debated with no knowledge that New York Times reporter Ken Vogel sat at an adjacent table secretly taking notes of the lawyers’ conversation.

Photo: @kenvogel Twitter

What does this episode mean for President Trump’s potential invocation of executive privilege?  What lessons can all lawyers derive from this inside-the-beltway faux pas?  Let’s discuss.

“Every Washington Reporter’s Dream”

In a recent NYT article, ‘Isn’t that the Trump Lawyer?’: A Reporter’s Accidental Scoop, Vogel provided a blow-by-blow account of his encounter with the two Trump lawyers.  He met a source at BLT Steak for lunch and, shortly after ordering, the restaurant seated Messrs. Dowd and Cobb at a table directly behind Vogel. More…

General Sessions and Executive Privilege

Over the last 24 hours, senators, reporters, and political pundits have generated lots of commentary over Attorney General Jeff Sessions’ refusal to reveal his communications with President Trump during testimony before the Senate Intelligence Committee.  Mr. Sessions cited, but did not invoke, the executive privilege as grounds for refusing to testify.

The Washington Post published this analysis quoting lawyers and law professors’ views on executive privilege.  In this online article, CNN reported on Mr. Sessions’ specific testimony and identified two 1982 DOJ memoranda from President Reagan’s administration as support.  The Wall Street Journal had this brief report on Mr. Sessions’ privilege assertion, and the L.A. Times, in this article, reported on Mr. Sessions’ exchanges with Senators Heinrich and King.

You may see Attorney General Sessions’ privilege assertion in response to Senator Heinrich’s questioning in this video clip from PBS NewsHour.

And you may see his explanation for refusing to reveal his communications with President Trump in this video clip from PBS NewsHour.

Mr. Sessions essentially stated that, although President Trump has not specifically invoked executive privilege, he was not at liberty to answer questions until the President had an opportunity to consider the question and then determine whether to invoke the privilege.

Commentators have raised several questions about the executive privilege’s application to Sessions’ testimony, stating that the requested testimony did not involve national security issues or pertain to an ongoing investigation.  And they question whether the Attorney General may refuse to answer questions when the President has not invoked the privilege.

So, let’s examine these issues from a legal, not political, perspective.

First, as explained in my recent post titled Trump, Comey, and Executive Privilege, the “executive privilege” is a broad phrase that encompasses various subcategories of privilege covering military secrets, grand-jury testimony, law-enforcement investigations, agencies’ deliberative processes, and presidential communications.

As with Director Comey’s testimony, Mr. Sessions’ potential testimony revealing his conversations with President Trump fall within the presidential communications privilege.  The presidential-communications privilege protects from disclosure communications that the President and/or his top advisors made in the performance of the President’s responsibilities.  The privilege is qualified and may be overcome upon a sufficient demonstration of need and that this evidence is not available from alternative sources.

Second, the President holds the presidential communications privilege and only he can waive it. Think of the attorney–client privilege analogy: the client, not the lawyer, holds the privilege and only the client can waive it.  If one asks a lawyer to reveal what her client said in a private meeting, the lawyer would state that she cannot answer unless her client authorizes disclosure.

Here, while Mr. Sessions does not hold the privilege and cannot officially invoke it, he cannot reveal his conversations with the President unless authorized to do so—meaning that the President has decided to waive the privilege.  According to Mr. Sessions, the President has not broadly invoked the presidential communications privilege regarding the testimony, but also has not considered the privilege with respect to the specific questions raised during the hearing.

Third, what is the process for procuring Mr. Sessions’ testimony now that he has refused to answer?  The Senate Intelligence Committee could (1) work with the Trump administration to determine whether he plans to invoke the privilege and, if not, bring Sessions back to answer the questions; or (2) challenge Sessions’ refusal to testify in court and seek a ruling on whether the privilege even applies.

As noted in my earlier post, and my Law360 article, the latter option presents a long, time-intensive process with no quick resolution.  Commentators who claim that a court will not uphold the privilege may be right, or they may be wrong.  The truth is that we will not know until the matter is actually litigated.

Trump, Comey, and Executive Privilege 1

Former FBI Director James Comey will testify before the Senate Intelligence Committee on Thursday, June 8, 2017, as part of the Committee’s investigation into Russia’s influence on the 2016 presidential election.  And the Committee’s inquiry will certainly include questions about Director Comey’s conversations with President Trump, including the reported discussion where President Trump, referring to the FBI’s investigation into former National Security Advisor Michael T. Flynn, told Comey: “I hope you can let this go.”

Will the President invoke Executive Privilege?

As Comey’s appearance date nears, several have questioned whether President Trump will invoke the “executive privilege” to prevent Comey from testifying about their conversations.  The reports are mixed.

Late Friday, June 2, the New York Times, citing unnamed “senior administration officials,” reported that the president will not invoke executive privilege to prevent Comey’s testimony, but that “Mr. Trump could still move to block the testimony next week.”  The Wall Street Journal, on the other hand, reported that “President Trump is weighing his legal options” about Comey’s upcoming testimony.

“Executive privilege” is a legal concept subject to imprecise definitions and usage.  So, with the president’s decision to invoke the privilege remaining open, or at least subject to reversal, let’s discuss the executive privilege, its scope, and application.

Legal and Political Questions

Whether President Trump has a legal basis to invoke the privilege is an entirely different question than whether he should invoke the privilege.  Lawyers and their clients frequently balance these often conflicting questions when deciding to invoke evidentiary privileges, such as the attorney–client privilege.  For example, a corporation may correctly claim that the attorney–client privilege protects its internal investigation, but nevertheless decide not to invoke it and produce the report to a governmental agency.

Here, White House legal advisors could opine that a good-faith legal basis exists to invoke the executive privilege over Comey’s testimony.  But if the president invokes the privilege, he could face political and public-relations repercussions, with many suggesting that the president’s privilege assertion is an attempt to “cover up the truth.”

Whether to face these repercussions is a strategic political question, not a legal one.  And it is secondary, with the threshold question remaining—whether the president has a legal basis to invoke the privilege.

Executive Privilege

Throughout American history, executive-branch officials have asserted the all-encompassing “executive privilege” to resist disclosing information to the legislative and judicial branches.  These nondisclosure efforts fell into a variety of privilege categories, such as privileges precluding the disclosure of military secrets, state secrets, law-enforcement investigations, government-informers’ identities, presidential communications, and the deliberative communications of executive agencies.

It is widely accepted that executive privileges improve governmental decision-making by permitting executive-branch officials to receive candid advice from subordinates.  Subordinates are less likely to freely communicate their advice without the executive privilege’s protection.

But this purpose necessarily conflicts with the long-held policy that the public has a right to examine public records.  This conflict produces a heightened tension that courts must navigate when deciding whether an executive-privilege subcategory protects government information from disclosure.

The two subcategories of executive privilege potentially pertinent to the Trump–Comey interactions are the deliberative-process privilege and the presidential-communications privilege.  Many confuse or conflate these subcategories of executive privilege, so it is important to know the precise differences.

Although both are subcategories of the executive privilege designed to protect executive-branch decision-making, the deliberative-process privilege protects the decision-making of executive branch officials generally, while the presidential-communications privilege specifically protects the president’s decision-making process.

The deliberative-process privilege protects information that is both predecisional, meaning information communicated prior to an official’s decision, and deliberative, meaning information shared as part of the give-and-take of the decision-making process.  As an example, last year the USDC for the District of Columbia ruled that the deliberative-process privilege protected some, but not all, of the Attorney General’s documents related to the “fast and furious” investigation.  You may read that opinion here.

Presidential-Communications Privilege

The presidential-communications privilege is the executive-privilege subcategory that will govern potential testimony about the Trump–Comey communications.  But what is its scope?

As far back as Chief Justice John Marshall’s opinions in Marbury v. Madison and the treason-related trials of Vice-President Aaron Burr, federal courts have recognized that presidential communications deserve some form of protection.  The legal debate over the scope of the presidential-communications privilege ripened during the Watergate era.

In 1974, the Supreme Court, in United States v. Nixon, faced the question whether the privilege protected President Nixon’s audiotapes from production in a criminal trial involving several individuals indicted by the Watergate grand jury.  You may read the Nixon opinion here, listen to Chief Justice Burger’s announcement of the opinion here, and listen to the oral argument here.

The Court ruled that there is a presumptive privilege for presidential communications that is “inextricably rooted in the separation of powers under the Constitution.”  The Court limited the privilege’s application by holding that the privilege is qualified, not absolute, meaning the privilege protection “must yield to the demonstrated, specific need for evidence.”

In an influential decision involving the OIC’s investigation into former Agriculture Secretary Mike Espy, the USCA—DC ruled that, to overcome the presumptively privileged nature of presidential communications, a party must provide a “focused demonstration of need, even when there are allegations of misconduct by high-level officials.”  This standard means that a party seeking the information must show that the evidence sought (1) likely contains important evidence and (2) is not available without due diligence elsewhere.  In re Sealed Case, 121 F.3d 729 (CADC 1997) (available here).

So, in sum, the presidential-communications privilege protects from disclosure communications that the President and/or his top advisors made in the performance of the President’s responsibilities.  The privilege is qualified and may be overcome by upon a sufficient demonstration of need and that this evidence is not available from alternative sources.

The Process

So, if President Trump invokes the presidential-communications privilege, how will this play out?  While some suggest that Comey could ignore the President’s privilege assertion and disclose their conversations, this seems unlikely.  The privilege belongs to the President, not Comey, and Comey would likely refrain from testifying until a court orders him to do so.

If it wants to challenge the President’s privilege assertion, the Senate Intelligence Committee would file an action in the USDC for the District of Columbia seeking to compel Comey’s testimony.  A legal battle would ensue, with the court having to determine the committee’s need for the testimony relative to its Russian-influence investigation and whether it may obtain similar evidence elsewhere.  And with an appeal likely, the ultimate decision could be delayed for months, if not longer.

What about Waiver?

The presidential-communications privilege, like all evidentiary privileges, may be waived by disclosing the putatively protected information to third parties.  If a court finds waiver, then it need not go through the demonstration-of-need analysis and simply order the Comey to testify.

The waiver standard is higher for the presidential-communications privilege. And even if the President waives the privilege as to one document or one conversation, that will not result in waiver as to related documents or related conversations.

In the Trump–Comey situation, there is some evidence of waiver regarding their purported conversation.  In his letter terminating Comey as FBI Director, which you may read here, President Trump stated that he appreciated Comey telling him, “on three separate occasions,” that the FBI was not investigating him.

And, in a subsequent interview with NBC News’ Lester Holt, the President discussed this conversation in a bit more detail.  You may see the relevant portion of that interview in this clip.

Closing Thoughts

So, can President Trump invoke the privilege?  If he does, will the Senate Intelligence Committee challenge that assertion in court?  If so, will it be able to overcome the privilege presumption? Can it show waiver and, if so, how far would the waiver extend?  This could be an interesting week, months, and years.